Post-massage cruds

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Lexie

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I have a client that chose me because I do more specific work than she is used to, and the massage is more aimed at pain relief. It accomplishes that but leaves her feeling cruddy afterwards. She sometimes goes to a more general therapist and does not feel cruddy afterwards. While on vacation, she got a basic Swedish and also didn't feel cruddy. Last time she was in, after she told me this, I did a more general and full-body 90 minute massage, but still focused quite a bit on her main area of complaint. Again, she felt less pain, but cruddy (lethargic.) Oddly, it hit a little later this time as opposed to right after the massage.

Suggestions?
 
Post-massage cruds

Have you asked her how she eats? Sounds as if you are typically more thorough and may be assisting in the release of toxins stored in her tissue. She may just need to "ride it out" so to speak. Is she drinking enough water?

Maybe implement a bit more energizing massage at the end? Tapotement? Sports massage?

Are you grounded before your sessions? Is she breathing through the work?

Could there be some transference going on that you are not aware of as of yet?

Does she exercise?
 
Post-massage cruds

Thank you for your response. We have talked about the other aspects that may be contributing.
I do ground and we do not chat. I have not tried tapotement yet.
 
Post-massage cruds

jdcan said:
Suggestions?

My suggestion is to keep working with her until she gets well and it passes. I had a client like this, and it took about a year to get past it. Sometimes things are just "stuck".
 
Post-massage cruds

MandesDen said:
Have you asked her how she eats? Sounds as if you are typically more thorough and may be assisting in the release of toxins stored in her tissue. She may just need to "ride it out" so to speak. Is she drinking enough water?

Maybe implement a bit more energizing massage at the end? Tapotement? Sports massage?

Are you grounded before your sessions? Is she breathing through the work?

Could there be some transference going on that you are not aware of as of yet?

Does she exercise?

First, some mythbusting: Massage does NOT "release toxins" from any tissues. Drinking more water does NOT flush toxins from the body.

Some clients tend to have stronger reactions to specific therapeutic work than they do to more basic relaxation sessions. This is more common if the work is painful and/or includes "deep pressure" that might be significantly uncomfortable during the massage. Why? Because painful work tends to stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and may create elevated stress levels. As the client's CNS calms down after the session, she would feel more "cruddy" as her system downregulates to a more parasympathetic state.

On the other hand, this client tends to feel better after relaxation massage, which would stimulate the parasympathetic response. Therefore I recommend that you do gentle specific work blended with relaxation work. If you can do specific work pain-free, you might find that she is able to relax throughout the session and is much less likely to have any "cruddiness" afterward.
 
Post-massage cruds

I would imagine if there's something she's doing outside of the massage that's affecting how she's feeling after, it would affect every massage she has to some extent, so my guess is that it's something to do with your work. I agree with pueppi since there was a little improvement after the last session so it could be that she just needs time in order to improve more.
 
Post-massage cruds

Thanks for the responses. I plan to let her know about pueppi's experience and go lighter. Although I tell all my clients that pain is not okay, I think there is a loss of sensate ability and maybe my work is causing a bit more than a little discomfort, even if it is not registering with the client. I do Deep Tissue, not deep Swedish. It is not about push hard all over. Still, I may have to lighten up. Another thought is I think I am the only therapist working the anterior cervicals. I may also ask her if she normally starts prone.

Jason, if you believe that ischemia/hyperemia is occuring, what is your hypothesis on what Is happpening with increased circulation in particular areas? (perhaps in a different topic if you decide to answer and it's long?)
 
Post-massage cruds

jdcan,

I just went through my clients folder (the one I mentioned above). After about three months of bodywork, he showed minimal "ill" feelings after the massage. The next time it popped up was approximately 13 months after the initial session. I worked with him weekly between 2008 & 2011 (with a few months here and there where he was only seen once or so).

Throughout the years he continued to have intermittent bouts of "ill" feelings (and sometimes outright sickness) after a massage. But, pretty much after year one, it was random and occasional.

I wanted to update this with a few more specifics, in case it makes a difference for your talk with your client.

It should also be noted that he was a Gulf War soldier.

Despite some opinions that this is a myth, I must say I personally feel like this client was dealing with some sort of toxic load which was brought to the table, and the massage work had some part in accessing. I do not believe the neurological components (mentioned in a prior post) were significant enough to create stress on any level which could cause my client to be sick, post-massage.
 
Post-massage cruds

jdcan said:
Thanks for the responses. I plan to let her know about pueppi's experience and go lighter. Although I tell all my clients that pain is not okay, I think there is a loss of sensate ability and maybe my work is causing a bit more than a little discomfort, even if it is not registering with the client. I do Deep Tissue, not deep Swedish. It is not about push hard all over. Still, I may have to lighten up. Another thought is I think I am the only therapist working the anterior cervicals. I may also ask her if she normally starts prone.

Jason, if you believe that ischemia/hyperemia is occuring, what is your hypothesis on what Is happpening with increased circulation in particular areas? (perhaps in a different topic if you decide to answer and it's long?)

If you are the only MT doing anterior neck work on this client, you might have the answer as to why she feels "cruddy" after your sessions. For example, the SCM is most often associated with pain patterns in the occiput, forehead, and face, but has also been associated with nausea, tinnitus, vertigo, visual disturbances, etc. When you are working the anterior cervicals, whether you mean SCM, scalenes, omohyoid, etc... you have the potential to affect the lymphatic system and the cranial nerves, too. The more you know about the area you are working, the better. With repeated treatments, her undesirable symptoms should fade.

Ischemia and hyperemia are (generally) transient conditions that vary considerably depending on what is happening. This is probably better as a separate thread, especially since I don't think it is central to the issue at hand.
 
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  40. wonderspa:
    wonderspa: ๐ŸŒบWonder spa,(9421Jane st unit127)call416-5000-800โ˜Ž๏ธbest massage in vaughan,๐Ÿ’„sexy very young girl Mimi๏ผŒlong legs ,natural c cup,very good looking amazing massage nice body slide,really popular ๐ŸŽlong hair mina smile,very good looking ,strong to relax oil ,back walk,more experience โค๏ธvery sexy Vietnamese girl Amy,open maid,amazing the end,really popular,must try๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿฅคall awesome massage ๐Ÿ‘๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน
  41. Golden Sunshine Spa:
    โœจClick on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates and special services ! โœ… Click Here Today๐ŸŒธSamy๐ŸŒธPriya๐ŸŒธLynda๐ŸŒธAletta๐ŸŒธIsabella๐ŸŒธIvy Call us โ˜Ž 905 - 265 - 2158โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate service awaits! โœจ
  42. DareDevil:
    366 ARIA WELLNESS โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธADDRESS: 360 HWY 7, UNIT #6, RICHMOND HILL,647-222-5683 โ™ฅ๏ธโ™ฅ๏ธ(PHONES CALL ONLY, NO TEXT'N AVAILABLE) โ™ฅ๏ธTODAY'S Schedule!โ™ฅ๏ธ Loaded lineup with Beautiful Girls : New young RMT student Helen, Fun girl Apple, Magical Mia and Work out๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿšด๐Ÿ’ช Babe Amy! SPECIAL PROMO 30 MINS 2 GIRLS $70 ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒน**TODAY'S PICKS OF THE DAY ARE ๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ APPLE AND HELEN๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿญ**
  43. Soul Relax Spa:
    โœจ Looking for a relaxing escape? โœ… Click Here Meet๐ŸŒธCarly๐ŸŒธBrandy๐ŸŒธKellyCall us today for the best treatment and service experience. Click on our Username and FOLLOW US for updates ! Call now โ˜Ž 289 - 298 - 5662โ˜Ž๏ธ Your ultimate relaxation awaits! โœจ
  44. Spa in Markham:
    GOLDEN FS โ€“ 8380 Kennedy Rd ๐Ÿ“ž 905-258-0777 / 416-688-6886 ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡บ VANESSA, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JULIE (2PM), ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ด MEGAN (8PM), ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ KELLY, ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ SONIA (8PM), ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ JESSIE ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookinggoldenlove
  45. FLOWER Spa - BLUEXADO | Thornhill | VAUGHAN:
    BLUEXADO FS โ€“ #06-1102 Centre St ๐Ÿ“ž 416-357-9797 / 416-678-8668 ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ CICI, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ AMY, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ SHERRY ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingbluexadolove
  46. FLOWER Spa โ€“ PINK | Scarborough | TORONTO:
    PINK FS โ€“ 3300 McNicoll Ave ๐Ÿ“ž 416-299-5515 / 416-817-3839 ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ท ELINA, ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ MADY, ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฌ CANDY, ๐Ÿ‡ป๐Ÿ‡ณ NANCY ๐Ÿ”Ž View Schedule: bit.ly/flowers_schedule ๐Ÿ›Ž๏ธ Booking Now: bit.ly/bookingpinklove
  47. SpringGreen.:
    Today we have 5 girls on downtown Toronto 72 gerrard st west๏ผš๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹ New girl Hitti very young๐Ÿ’‹๐Ÿ’‹Lisa- Tanned Spanish beauty with large melons and a fun booty too minica- exotic goddess with a gymnasts body and corresponding flexibility Jennifer- Exotic beauty with... Call and text 647 891 0699 ask question :heart4 :heart4 :heart4
  48. Jennyโ€™s Spa:
    ๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’JENNYโ€™S SPA๐ŸŽ‰๐Ÿ’ โœ…5170 DUNDAS STREET WESTโœ… ๐Ÿ‘ŒETOBICOKE ONTARIO M9A 1C4๐Ÿ‘Œ โ˜Ž๏ธ( 647-893-5196)โ˜Ž๏ธCall or Text โ˜Ž๏ธ( 437-888-3759)โ˜Ž๏ธCall Only (ETOBICOKE) OPEN 10am to 9pm MONDAY to SUNDAY ๐Ÿ”ฅโœ…GRAND OPENING๐Ÿ’ฏNEW GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅEXCELLENT MASSAGE + SERVICE QUEENS NOW AVAILABLE AT JENNYโ€™S SPA FOR ALL YOUR MASSAGE AND SPECIAL EXTRA NEEDS๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’ฏ๐Ÿ˜˜๐Ÿ”ฅโค๏ธ๐Ÿ‘Œ ๐Ÿ”ฅTWO BEAUTIFUL NEW YOUNG ASIAN GIRLS EVERYDAY๐Ÿ”ฅ ๐Ÿ’ฏREAL PICTURES OF ATTENDANTS๐Ÿ’ฏ ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹Limited Time Special Promotion๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ’‹ โœ…๐Ÿ’ฆ30 Minutes Nude Mass
  49. AliceSpa:
    3 Sexy Young Girls Today at Alice Spa. Open 10am to 9pm : CLOUDIA (12pm-9pm): is Vietnamese, young, petite 5'2" & 96 Lbs, B Cup, best rim deep bbbj cim. $40 Room Fee + $80 (incl bbbj & fs). +$20 for rim/cim. Excellent open minded services. SKY (10:30am-9pm): is Part time girl from Indonesia, petite 5'2", B Cup, 100 Lbs, long black hair, new to the biz.Young, fresh/cute, pretty, submissive, slim tiny waist, fair skin. bbbj
  50. ForeverWarden:
    Monday at ๐Ÿซฆโค๏ธ๐Ÿ”ดโ™พ๏ธ๐“•๐“ž๐“ก๐“”๐“ฅ๐“”๐“ก ๐“ข๐“Ÿ๐“โ™พ๏ธ๐ŸŸฅ๐Ÿ”ดโค๏ธ๐Ÿซฆ 2190 Warden Ave, Unit 201, Scarborough ๐Ÿฐ๐Ÿญ๐Ÿฒ-๐Ÿด๐Ÿฌ๐Ÿฌ-๐Ÿณ๐Ÿด๐Ÿด๐Ÿณ: Bella, Yumi & Cindy. Bella is around 5โ€™3โ€ with a thin to medium build, C Cups, and a pleasing personality. She can offer dfk, bbbj and cfs as well as a good massage experience. Yumi is a young half Chinese / /half Korean very sexy & slim beauty, can do bbbj cim, excellent services...
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